Catherine Cardinal Interview – Men To Run From To Find One To Run To

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

(00:50):  Hello everyone and welcome to Intersections Match’s Talk Radio, a monthly holistic lifestyle show focused on the continual evolution into the best versions of our authentic selves. We and our guests discuss relationships and health and wellness, each of which contributes to meaningful and fulfilling lives.

This is Jasbina, your host. I’m a former practicing lawyer and the Founder of Intersections Match, the only elite national personalized matchmaking company focused on singles of South Asian descent nationwide in the US.

I’m very excited to welcome Dr. Catherine Cardinal to our show tonight. Dr. Cardinal has been a guest expert on The O’Reilly Factor, CBS Studio Two, Blind Date, Match.com and Chemistry.com.

She’s been a commentator on more than 25 US and international radio programs and featured in Cosmopolitan, Glamour, Redbook, Ladies’ Home Journal, Maxim, Complete Woman, Modern Bride, Star and In Touch.

Dr. Cardinal is an LA Times bestselling author and her books have been published in seven languages.

Tonight, we’ll be discussing Dr. Cardinal’s book, Men to Run From: So You Can Find the Right One to Run to. Welcome, Dr. Cardinal.

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Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(2:07): Hi, Jasbina. Thank you very much.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

(2:11): It’s a pleasure to have you. As a professional dating coach and matchmaker, I’m fascinated by insights and perspectives regarding relationships.

I’ve enjoyed reading Men to Run From: So You Can Find the Right One to Run to and would love to explore some of the insights shared in your book.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(2:28): That’s great. I’d love to talk about it.

 

Jasbina Ahluwalia

(2:31): Dr. Cardinal, before exploring the insights, why don’t you share with our listeners what prompted you to write this book in the first place?

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(2:39): I’m a coach as well. I do relationship coaching and individual coaching. I have PhD in counseling psychology.

I always hear the complaints that people have about being in a relationship. Over the 25 years that I’ve been doing this, I started to see that there were different types of men out there that women should be aware of.

Where it really crystalized for me is when I was sitting at a friend’s house. I was paging through a book called The National Audubon Society’s Field Guide to Birds.

It’s a thick book. It has a color picture of a bird. Next to it, it has what it looks like, what it sounds like, where it lives and what its mating habits are.

It inspired the idea of writing a book that is essentially a field guide to men. I call it a practical “man-ual” for recognizing red flag men.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

C’mere Go Away Guy: Who Is He?

(3:40): I love that. In your book, you shared 20 different prototypes of guys whose behavior and traits are likely to pose substantial challenges to forming long-lasting and fulfilling relationships.

What’s great is that, for each of the 20 prototypes discussed in the book, you describe the following four helpful things. I will outline them for the audience.

You describe what each prototype

• Tends to look and sound like
• Why we tend to be drawn to each prototype
• The obstacles a woman will likely face with each prototype
• Helpful hints, questions to ask yourself and things to do when you find yourself in a relationship with any of the prototypes discussed

 

I’ve picked 3 of the 20 prototypes that I believe would be of most interest to our audience. I’m sure that the other 17 would be of interest as well. In the interest of time, I had to pick 3.

I’d love for you to discuss them each one by one, mentioning what each of the prototypes tends to look and sound like, why we tend to be drawn to them, obstacles a woman will likely face and helpful hints, questions to ask yourself and things to do when you find yourself in a relationship with any of the 3 prototypes.

The first prototype that we’ll discuss, Dr. Cardinal characterizes as the C’mere Go Away Guy. Dr. Cardinal, can you tell us about him?

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(5:33): Before I do that, I want to comment on something that you said a minute ago. I like to start out an interview with the following.

When people hear the title, they get ideas about what it means. In every one of these men that is depicted in the book, every one of them might have something that’s very redeeming.  That is why, at the end of each chapter, I have listed very positive things that you can do.

Not all of these guys are incapable of being in a relationship. Sometimes a woman can bring out the best in a man and help some of these negative traits be diminished.

I have a lot of men tell me that they love the book because it has such a positive ending of each chapter. They say, “I wish my girlfriend would have done some of these things with me.”

Elaborating on C’mere Go Away Guy: Who Is He?

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Go Away Guy Red Flags

(8:32): You qualified at the beginning that this is one of the prototypes where the things to do are limited. What are some questions to ask yourself or things to do if you do find yourself in a relationship with a guy like this?

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(8:52): In defense of men, sometimes if a guy stops calling, it might not be that he’s a C’mere Go Away Guy. He might have reunited with his ex or got a job somewhere else.

You want the guy to have enough courtesy to call and tell you.

Elaborating on Go Away Guy Red Flags.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Lust or Love: How to Tell

(12:07): Give him the time to show you that he is able to be consistent over time. He needs to be comfortable with you expressing your feelings towards him as well.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(12:18): Yes. I’d like to offer a million-dollar piece of advice that I give to my clients. Women, I want you to hear this. Take out a pen and write it down.

Most women have been burned by this.

Men do not fall in love quickly. They fall in like and they fall in lust very quickly.

Elaborating on Lust or Love: How to Tell.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Kid in a Candy Store: Identify Him

(13:11): That’s wonderful. I hope that everyone got that one down.

Let’s move on to the second of the three prototypes that I selected. Dr. Cardinal characterizes this one as the Kid in a Candy Store. Dr. Cardinal, please tell us about him.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(13:35): This is the guy who is the poster child for Arrested Development. It doesn’t have anything to do with age.

For instance, I have another section called Boys, which is about the youngsters.

The Kid in the Candy Store is the guy who is stuck in the phase of development where his appetite for life is huge.

Elaborating on Kid in a Candy Store: Identify Him.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Dating The Kid In A Candy Store Type

(15:20): What are some questions to ask yourself when you find yourself in a relationship with someone you suspect may be the Kid in the Candy Store?

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(15:29): If you are aware that this guy is a Kid and has his focus all over, at the very least, does he respect your wishes and pay attention to you when he’s out with you?

At the very least, if you’re going to date a guy like this, I think it would be okay for you to say, “You’re out with me tonight. All attention is on me.”

Elaborating on Dating The Kid In A Candy Store Type.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Dating a Mama’s Boy

(18:18): The final of the three prototypes that I’d like to discuss tonight is one that you characterize as, “He’s a young thing and cannot leave his mother.” Tell us about that one.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(18:30): This is the guy for whom it doesn’t matter if he lives with his mom or not. It doesn’t matter whether she’s down the hall or across the country.

He has an emotional attachment to his mom that he has not grown out of. It’s almost as if mom is on his shoulder at all times.

Elaborating on Dating a Mama’s Boy.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Over-Involved Mother-In-Law

(19:30): Your stories have been great. Do you have any stories from your clinical experience about this that you can share with our audience to really bring the point home?

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(19:43): Yes. I had a couple come in for some stress and anger management. I do stress and anger management coaching as well.

They were fighting. They came in for some relationship coaching. They were talking about how they were planning their wedding. The mom was coming in on everything, such as the flowers and the dresses.

Elaborating on Over-Involved Mother-In-Law.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Setting Boundaries With His Mom

(22:16): It sounds like the guy would have to be open to establishing those boundaries.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(22:30): That’s right. As the woman, if you’re feeling this about your partner and his mom, you have to make very clear requests of him.

Remember, he’s emotionally involved with the mom. He may not be hearing you clearly.

I tell women that it’s our responsibility to communicate very clearly and unemotionally without making the man wrong. Otherwise, he won’t hear anything.

Elaborting on Setting Boundaries With His Mom.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Empowered Women in Relationships

(24:50): Whenever you say that about responsibility, what I hear is that women are empowered.

They can do something about this. That’s where I love to go with relationships. It’s a sense of empowerment.

That means that there is something that you can do. If there is something you can do, you are empowered to potentially change. Of course, the guy needs to be willing to.

That’s very positive in terms of potential.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(25:19): Yes, absolutely. We have more power than we think.

At least a third of my practice are men. Men like to come see me. I’m not a coach who only sees women.

The number one thing that men are tired of with women are women making demands, nagging and making them wrong.

Elaborating on Empowered Women in Relationships.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

(26:25): Then you can walk away. I found a quote in your book particularly compelling. I’d like to share it with our listeners and then have you expand. You wrote, “We should never be ashamed that finding a good relationship, like life, is a process of trial and error. The only thing that would be regrettable is if we didn’t learn from our failed relationships.” This seems to segue into what you were speaking about before. Tell us about that.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(26:54): That comes from a lot of personal experience. I’ll be honest. I’ve done a lot of radio. I realized when you said how many radio things that I’ve done that I have to update that. I do a lot of radio and TV. I came from an alcoholic background. I had no role modeling whatsoever. I didn’t have anything as I went out into the world. I feel that I took lemons and made lemonade.

I went into a field where I could help people. The things that my clients always say to me when they work with me on the phone is, “I know, the way you listen and respond, that you’re a person who has been through a lot in your life. It helps me. I know you didn’t have a silver spoon life and you’re not just doing this because you wanted to earn a living doing this.” When I talk about the transitions and shifts, it’s because I’ve had several relationships that I went through before I found the relationship I’m in now.

I will say that I’m very happily married now to a wonderful man. He and I have a great give and take. But that didn’t just happen. I don’t want anyone to give up. Every time you look at something that didn’t work, you open up the possibility for the next one to be better. It’s like everything in life. You just keep doing it until you get it right. Always feel great when you move on from something into something else.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Love Yourself For Better Relationship

(28:35): There is another quote that follows on the heels of this. I’ll read it and then have you share with the audience.

“I couldn’t help but notice that, as my relationship with myself grew kinder and more loving, so too did the men who showed up in my life.”

You mentioned about having experiences and now being happily married. Tell us about this quote.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(29:14): My first book is on self-esteem. I’m very proud of my first book. It’s gone into a bunch of languages. I get letters from all over the world.

 

Jasbina Ahluwalia

(29:26): What is the title of that book, in case people want to check it out?

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(29:30): It’s called A Cure for the Common Life: The Cardinal Rules of Self-Esteem.

Rule number one is, don’t hang around people who make you feel bad about yourself.

The only reason that anyone would hang around someone who doesn’t think you’re the greatest thing in the world is because of low self-esteem. Low self-esteem is learned.

Elaborating on Love Yourself For Better Relationship.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

Choosing the Right Mate: Tips

(32:13): That’s excellent. That’s a very empowering thought. We do have men and women listening to this.

I’d love for you to share with us your tips for choosing the right mate. I know you have male and female clients as well as couples. Feel free to do what comes naturally to you. You may want to first speak to women or men. You can make it gender neutral.

Your tips to choosing the right mate would be very welcome.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(32:46): Thank you for that. I appreciate you letting me have time to say this. I’m saying this truthfully. Yes, I want people to buy my books. My self-esteem book is $9.95. That’s nothing. I think it’s $7 on Amazon.

The fundamentals of a healthy, vibrant sense of self is the first thing.

In my Cardinal Rules book, which takes about 15 or 20 minutes to read, you can get a foundation for a healthy sense of self that embodies

• self-love
• self-discipline
• self-reliance
• self-control
• ability to self-correct.

 

Those are the five fundamentals of a healthy self-esteem.

Elaborating on Choosing the Right Mate: Tips.

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Jasbina Ahluwalia

(37:47): That’s very interesting. Thank you. Those were really great insights. Is there any last thought or take-home message that you’d like to leave our listeners with? You gave some million-dollar insights. Is there anything else that you’d like to share?

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(38:13): I’ve been in business for 25 years. I really don’t advertise. It’s word of mouth. If anyone is listening and they’re feeling hopeless about finding someone or making a relationship work, go to my website. I’ve had people say that they were in couples counseling for months and years.

When they come to me, in just a couple of sessions they say, “I understood more and knew more what to do than the months and years of the other things that I’ve done.” I think sometimes people are intimidated to contact someone. They think it’s going to be this long-term commitment. I like to say that it’s not with me. I can get you unstuck pretty quickly. I’d like to throw that out.

Please don’t ever give up hope. I work with so many people who were in what would appear to be hopeless situations that no longer had possibilities. Through the exercises, plans and things we laid in place, I have many people who are happily married now.

I had a couple get married last week. She’s 60 and he’s 50. She came to me several years ago saying, “I’m never going to find a man. I’m too old and I’m in L.A.” They’re gloriously happy. She just followed my advice, step by step. I get these stories all the time. Don’t be hopeless. Don’t think things aren’t possible. Don’t ever give up.

 

Jasbina Ahluwalia

(39:54): That’s wonderful. I think that’s a great thing to end on. I’d like to thank Dr. Cardinal for joining us today. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

 

Dr. Catherine Cardinal

(40:03): I’d like to give my website. They can go to MenToRunFrom.com and CatherineCardinal.com.

 

Jasbina Ahluwalia

(40:14): If you’d like to learn more about the insights that Dr. Cardinal has been sharing with us today, her book is entitled Men to Run From: So You Can Find the Right One to Run to.

In case you joined us late or would like to share this show with people in your life, I’d like to remind you that today’s radio show will be archived and available as a podcast on Intersections Match’s website, which is www.IntersectionsMatch.com. I can be reached at jasbina@intersectionsmatch.com. I appreciate you hanging out with us. Do email me with topics you’d like discussed in future shows. Make sure to join us for next month’s show. Thank you so much.

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What do you think?

Would you like to add to the insights shared by Dr. Catherine Cardinal? Share your thoughts in the comments below.

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